From: owner-rq-rules-digest To: rq-rules-digest@hops.wharton.upenn.edu Subject: RQ Rules Digest: V3 #21 Reply-To: rq-rules Errors-To: owner-rq-rules-digest Precedence: bulk Content-Return: Prohibited Return-Path: owner-rq-rules-digest RQ Rules Digest: Friday, 9 August 1996 Volume 03 : Number 021 TABLE OF CONTENTS WKnow92814@aol.com idea floating Martin Declan Kelly idea floating David Cake idea floating Lewis Jardine Casting Spells & Statistic Increase Lewis Jardine 100% Combat Skills???? Guy Hoyle Runic sorcery offer David Boatright Attributes\skills and Occupation Hartley Patterson attributes and occupations Timothy Byrd Burly Smiths Edward Moon Word format of Spanish RQ rules He Who Rules All Where is Al RQ4 info, pbem RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. When paraphrasing you demonstrate exactly how well you understand the point someone was trying to make. 4. There is no number 4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WKnow92814@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 02:37:09 -0400 Subject: Re: idea floating Steve wrote: >SO the idea is this, a combat system where the defender's actions reduce the >chance to hit, and the attacker's skill is used to mitigate the defender's >self protective actions. > >COULD THIS BE A WORKABLE CONCEPT UPON WHICH TO BUILD A COMBAT SYSTEM? Have you ever looked at GURPS (www.sjgames.com)? An average begining combat oriented character starts with 14-16 skill rolled on 3d6 -- over 90% hit chance. The target then must parry, dodge, have really good armor, or be in pitch darkness to avoid getting hit. It is definately a workable concept. William Kowles ------------------------------ From: Martin Declan Kelly Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: idea floating Hmm, this would work, except the skill% reflects whether or not the character can do it when it counts... the situation described below would best be simulated by an attack against a helpless, fully-surprised target (one who isn't doing anything at all) which would be at a +60% according to my RQ:AiG rules... which gives Joe a 70% chance..however using my judgement I would allow it to auto-hit (no chance of a fumble, which reflect stress). In an actual combat, hitting an unmoving target when you've never held the weapon before isn't the same as whacking a tree in a pasture when no-one else is around... A succesful attack is one in which you strike your opponent without over-exposing yourself, unbalancing, or becoming unaware of your surroundings... a different kettle of fish entirely from hitting a tree with a piece of rebar. Declan At 09:55 PM 8/8/96 -0500, you wrote: >> >> For a combat system that models real life, maybe we should go backwards to >> the RQII defense skill. >> And (here's the kicker) >> make everyone's starting skills 100% with weapons. >> >> I mean think about it: If Joe Bozo picks up a sword for the FIRST time ever, >> and swings it at a character NOT DOING ANYTHING TO AVOID THE BLOW, he will >> hit (ok, except on a fumble). It's like swinging at a tree. >> >> true or false? >> >This is a good premise but very difficult to implement. For a combat >rich environment Merp or Rolemaster is good. RQ is designed for roleplay >and not so much combat. I don't mean to demean or discourage. This >sounds like you would end up with a system of combat with the play-ease >similar to herding chickens. Good Luck.--Brad > > - -- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars... - Oscar Wilde o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o Martin Declan Kelly Teleport Internet Services Senior Tech Support My view and opinions are my own; go get your own http://www.teleport.com/~declan/ o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o~o ------------------------------ From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 02:57:35 +0800 Subject: Re: idea floating Other games which similarly have the 'attacker usually hits non-resisting targets' idea in practice are Champions and Shadowrun. Champions you need to roll 11 or less on 3d6, but add to this your Offensive Combat Value, and substract targets Defensive Combat Value. But if the target is just standing there (for example, target is actually a tree), their DCV is based purely on size, and is pretty small, so chances are usually 14 or 15 or less (more than a 90% chance) to hits furniture, dummies, etc. In Shadowrun, the attacker rolls a lot of dice, and some of these are successes. For a person with basic training, in a reasonable situation, they almost always get at least one. Even one success means a hit, more successes meaning more damage. But if the defender is aware, they can also roll dice, each success removing one of the attackers successes. Its a bit more complex than that, and there are actually big flaws in how the numbers you actually need to roll are generated (and good PCs can roll truly stupid numbers of dice - one of my characters usually rolls 14), but the basic idea works fine. As to how it would work in RQ - I'm not sure. I think, cumbersome though it can be, you really need a way for modifiers to work non-linearly - - ie I don't think just a -ve from %chance works that well, especially with lots of numbers over 100 floating around. And the RQ system is pretty inherently pretty linear, in large part due to its reliance on %iles (In the examples above, the multiple dice give you different results - Champions particularly your classic bell curve works quite well). Cheers David ------------------------------ From: Lewis Jardine Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 11:54:08 -0700 Subject: Casting Spells & Statistic Increase > From: Glenn Glazer > This happened in Glorantha. As I remember, they were mass manufacturing cheap magic swords until ecology caught up with them. > > Glenn Yes but this does not mean that the people of the Clanking Ruins did not have to use magic like mindlink to allow the transfer of POW. ___________________________________________ > From: Alain_RAMEAU@total.fr (Alain RAMEAU) > Subject: Magic resistance roll > Reworking your example to correct errors: > Example: A caster (14 POW, 70% skill) trying to cast a spell to and > overcome a 18 POW target will have 70%-((18-14)*5%)=50% chance. However, under RQ3 his chance would be 70% to cast & 30% to overcome. Combining these mathematically would give chance of success = 0.7*0.3 = 0.21 = 21% (rather different from your result)! BODGERS (& Simon Phipp) just ignore the casting roll and concentrate on the important POW v. POW roll. My view is that with practice casting a spell (as long as you can concentrate) is relatively simple. The problems start when you are trying to avoid getting sliced up! ___________________________________________ Kevin Rose & Jane Williams discuss statistic increases. > I started at the gym at Christmas, and by May had more than doubled > all the weights I was using. Not to such heroic numbers as Peter, > but say STR2 to STR4. That was one hour every Sunday. I don't know you Jane, but I suspect you may be selling yourself short as in RQ the minimum STR is 3! > When our PCs train STR in games, they seem to spend seven hours a day, > every day, until they get there. I don't believe this would work: > comments, anyone? Would a maximum of one hour a day be more reasonable? > And how many hours _should_ it take to increase a stat? Well I doubt that someone can STR train for long, a max of 2 hours a day seems reasonable. However, they would need to rest their bodies afterwards to allow repair, and building-up of muscle tissue. Thus further hard-physical activity would be counter productive. If this is the case then Jane's time data is not unreasonable. However, smart players might be able to use the remaining time profitably: Intellectual & other non-physical pursuits or training... I might even allow them to do DEX training! Weights followed by Yoga or stretching to avoid losing flexibility. The only real problem is STR & CON training together (on weights high mass/low reps versus low mass/high reps), although I suspect that swimming does them both to some degree (but mainly CON). ________________________________________________ As a GM I would offer various regimes and allow the characters to choose. Standard Strength School: (STR training at full price, but allowed 4 hours a day off.) Tarkan's Toughness School: (CON & survival as he spends ALL day jogging around the country-side pointing out things in an irritatingly cheerful and un-tired manner). Basher Harris' Brute Force School: (STR & CON together but requires a luck roll each week to avoid injury which negates the entire week's training). Slishal's Swimming School: (Swim & CON together, but Slishal is a newtling and refuses people who have been blacklisted by the river folk and Lunars (who have the reputation of eatting newtling tail)). Kelick's Climbing School: (Climb, STR & CON but must make a climb roll each week to avoid a serious fall of 3d10 metres...). Chalana Arroy rehabilitation and physiotherapy program: Run by Hilda Hardwork, motto No Pain No Gain, who is experienced at helping people recover from disease, etc. If taken up straight after a disease is cured she can rebuild lost physical statistics at double normal rate. The *victim* is expected to make an appropriate (to their wealth) donation to the Chalana Arroy temple funds. She can also build stats higher, but only at normal rate and only if she is not overloaded with people who really need her help. Kralorian "Ambassador's" Residence: The bodyguards of His Most Revered Excellency have been known to educate people worthy of respect who have come to his notice. His Most Revered Excellency has also been known to take tea with an honoured few and to discuss matters of Kralorian custom and culture with them, occassionally he will help the ignorant to read and write Kralori. His Most Revered Excellency is known to have exquisite taste in fine art and be most appreciative of people who make the effort to bring such things to his attention. He is quite an accomplished painter (in the Kralori minimalist style) but modestly does not consider himself expert enough to teach others. His bodyguards off course refuse all material offers in order to avoid compromising their position. They teach: Falling Blossom Style: Soft Martial Art: Martial Arts, CON, DEX & Dodge at half normal rate. Tiger Style: Hard Martial Art: Martial Arts & STR at full rate. Kralorian Sword style: Kenjutsu (only 50% compatible with other sword techniques) at full rate, fast draw & arrow cutting at half rate. They also teach archery, riding, speak Kralorian and stealth. Lunar Governor's Salt Mines: (STR & CON research but must make a CON roll each month or lose a point of each and a luck roll each season or be exposed to a disease). Of course there is no need to tell them too much about the stuff in brackets. Let them find out for themselves... Cheers Lewis ------------------------------ From: Lewis Jardine Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 12:24:49 -0700 Subject: 100% Combat Skills???? Hi All WRT Steve Lieb's suggestion of 100% starting skill for weapons. While it is true that hitting a stationary person is very easy I would not tackle this problem in this manner. Basically, RQ system starts with low percentages & rises. A better way is to view the situation as modifying the skill rather than the modifying the basic skill to suit that rather unrealistic situation. Skill = chance to hit someone "in Combat". If someone just stands there and takes it GM decides that this adds +50% or even + 80% (depending on what he feels like). After all some people have trouble pointing a gun at another person who just stands there and says "Go ahead, shoot me, that'll really make you tough. Look I'll stand totally still, I'm not going to try to grab you. Hey, if its difficult you can put the gun to my head, that way you won't be able to miss, that'll show them you're really good!" Basic answer is why scrap the whole system over a special case, just apply appropriate modifiers to cover the special situation. Cheers Lewis ------------------------------ From: Guy Hoyle Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:17:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Runic sorcery offer At 10:38 PM 8/8/96 -0400, you wrote: > Some time ago I wrote up an unusual system of Rune-based sorcery >for RQ. It was posted to the Glorantha Digest's predecessor at least four >or five years ago. Recently I offered it to the readers of the Digest, >but had it called to my attention that it might be more appropriately >offered here. I don't know what the level of duplication is between the >two lists; no annoyance is intended for subscribers to both. > > If anyone would like an ASCII copy of the system, please drop me a >line. Alternatively I'm willing to post it to the list, but at over 600 >lines (10 pages) it's very long. I don't know if it would be appropriate. I would! Thanks! Guy Hoyle (guyhoyle@chrysalis.org) "He beats his fists against the posts and still insists he sees no ghosts." ------------------------------ From: "David Boatright" Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 17:10:44 +0000 Subject: Attributes\skills and Occupation How about dividing the hours spent in an Occupation over a time period and dividing it by say 10 and applying that to an applicable skill or characteristic. - ----------------------------------------------------------- Better Dead than Red RQ RIP - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: hpttrsn@vossnet.co.uk (Hartley Patterson) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 23:22:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: attributes and occupations ian gorlick [V3#19]: >I remember >that Bushido used to have something like this. As skills went up, there was a >feedback process that would give increases on the value of certain attributes. >If anyone has a copy maybe they could look it over and see if it might be >adaptable to RQ. Yes, for each 5% skill increase a fractional amount is added to an appropriate Attribute, only taking effect when the next whole number is reached. This has the advantage that for one-off scenarios you can ignore the rule, as it takes a long time for an Attribute change - in Bushido skills only improve with training, not experience. I see no reason why it shouldn't work with RQ, adding to the Primary Characteristic for the skill. Considerable extra bookkeeping though! Let's call them Improvement Points (IP) and to avoid fractions award an IP every time a skill reaches or passes a 5% increment. Add this to an 'IP' line on your character sheet parallel to the Characteristics line, and when IP reaches say 100 up goes the Characteristic. This then feeds back via the Bonus to all similar skills. - -- Hartley Patterson Home Page: http://village.vossnet.co.uk/h/hpttrsn/ featuring News from Bree, medieval economics and an elderly universe ------------------------------ From: "Timothy Byrd" Date: Fri, 09 Aug 96 14:43:20 PST Subject: Re: Burly Smiths [Jim Bickmeyer wrote about getting an attribute advancement check for doing something demanding for a week. The example he gave was a smith becoming stronger due to the nature of his work.] I first thought that what constitutes "difficult work" has to be tied to the level of the skill being used. For example, it would take a truly exceptional project to give a master smith a strength check. Then I realised that one of the effects of higher skill is that it obviates some of the need for high characteristics. ("Work smarter, not harder.") A beginning smith will try to smash the metal into shape. A master smith doesn't need to exhaust himself on a daily basis. A godlike smith might be like a diamond cutter - one tap in *just* the right place... When I was taking fencing, our coach was always telling the class we needed to be as lazy as possible. Don't overreact. Do as little as possible. Conserve energy for when it counts. - -- Tim ------------------------------ From: Edward Moon Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 16:36:51 -0700 Subject: Word format of Spanish RQ rules FYI, Steve Perrin's Spanish RQ rules are now available in Word formats (Word for Windows 7.0 and Word for Mac 5.1). They (as well as the ASCII text versions) are available at . ------------------------------ From: "He Who Rules All (Where is All anyway?)" Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:41:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: RQ4 info, pbem On Mon, 5 Aug 1996 GBailey@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have the latest info on RQ4 (i.e. release date)? To the best of my knowledge, RQ4 should be ready for shipping by GenCon or Christmas. Suppliers were getting pre-orger info about 1 and a half months ago. Your local games shop may have more info, my friends at my local game shop found this out for me and have placed orders for a few copies. -John Buckmaster ******************************* ** ** ** I can't do that Dave. ** ** -HAL 9000 ** ** ** ******************************* ------------------------------ End of RQ Rules Digest: V3 #21 ****************************** This is the bottom of the RuneQuest Rules Digest. RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill, and Glorantha is a trademark of Chaosium. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval. Send electronic mail to Majordomo@hops.wharton.upenn.edu with "help" in the body of the message for subscription information on this and other mailing lists. 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