From: owner-rq-rules-digest To: rq-rules-digest@hops.wharton.upenn.edu Subject: RQ Rules Digest: V2 #253 Reply-To: rq-rules Errors-To: owner-rq-rules-digest Precedence: bulk Content-Return: Prohibited Return-Path: owner-rq-rules-digest RQ Rules Digest: Saturday, 11 May 1996 Volume 02 : Number 253 TABLE OF CONTENTS David Dunham Fatigue SPerrin@aol.com Fatigue Rules SPerrin@aol.com fatigue rules Mmohrfield@aol.com Adamant ANDOVER@delphi.com Adamantine spike Sandy Petersen Heroes Sandy Petersen Fatigue Rules RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. When paraphrasing you demonstrate exactly how well you understand the point someone was trying to make. 4. There is no number 4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dunham@pensee.com (David Dunham) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 22:27:51 -0700 Subject: Re: Fatigue Colin Watson answered me > > This seems like another "penalize the unlucky" rule. It's bad enough > > rolling a 96, but now your next roll is harder, too. > > You could shift the threshold to the other end of the scale - you lose > fatigue if you roll below 20%-CON. Penalise the lucky. Somehow it doesn't > seem natural. Alternatively you could just roll separately for fatigue > whenever you roll for a skill (however, part of the elegance of the system > is that there is no additional rolling required). I find "penalize the unlucky" rules to be no fun. Frex, RQ3 spellcasting: if you have a low POW, not only do you fail to cast a spirit magic spell, but you lose a MP. The failure is penalty enough. Failing to make a parry would be penalty enough without having to also lose fatigue*. I don't think this is enough to outweigh the admitted elegance of a single roll. However, there are other ways you could do this. Perhaps any roll ending with a 0 loses fatigue. If you are over your fatigue threshold, any roll ending with 9 or 0. If twice over your threshold, 8, 9 0. I think the best answer for a quick game is to ignore fatigue. Failing that, roll at the *beginning* of combat if you've been travelling, especially in armor and with helmets. If the fight lasts a long time, roll again (the frequency of this roll really doesn't matter, since all combatants have to make it). * Taking the resulting wound could fatigue you, though such rules are likely to be messy. > > This scheme gives a major break to someone with 10 ENC, as opposed to one > > with 11 ENC (assuming average STR here). If you want a "high rolls do bad > > things" rule, why not instead count every point of ENC directly, so your > > threshold is (100 - ENC)? > > I agree that the STR cutoff point is ugly. But the problem with figuring > ENC into the fatigue threshold is that you then really have to figure > STR into it too (if we agree that strong characters should be able to > carry more load). Then you end up with very high STR creatures (great trolls > etc) going unfatigued regardless of their potentially low CON. Part of the ugliness was that there were *no* effects unless you were over the threshold. > I've been thinking some more about these Fatigue rules. Perhaps the > effects would be closer to the current RQ3 rules if we gave each character > a couple of "free" fatigue levels which can be lost without incurring > penalties. Only the third and subsequent levels would give a -10% cumulative > penalty. This could help. I think putting the STR & CON part of it here would solve part of my objection (they would still be important, but not as major of a break point). David Dunham Pensee Corporation dunham@pensee.com Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 http://www.pensee.com/dunham/ "I say we should listen to the customers and give them what they want." "What they want is better products for free." --Scott Adams ------------------------------ From: SPerrin@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 02:08:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Fatigue Rules I had a number of good replies ready to go to everyone who was asking questions about my fatigue rules, but Colin Watson did it for me. Thanks, Colin. I've copied off your replies to add to my RQ file for if I ever get another game of RQ going around here. And since no one has answered poor Paul's request for RQ4 stuff, it looks to me like the closest thing we'll ever see to RQ4 is this listing. Just keep reading and take what you want. Since I moved to Southern California and started working full time at Interplay (in the TSR Division--everyone take three irony points damage) I have been cut off of whatever tenuous contact I had with the project. In theory, there was to be a rules book that would be even more generic than RQ3 and a separate Glorantha book, which I was supposed to edit. Of course, what I really wanted to do is edit the rules book, but at the time I was desperate for money (which I am not, now) and was willing to stick my nose back into Glorantha for lunars. However, I now have enough lunars... As a general statement, I dropped off of the Glorantha list because I'm tired of discussing a world I did not create (except for minor things like Trollkin) and stay on the Rules list because I enjoy the give and take of the rules discussions. I guess I'm still in search of the perfect set of rules. RuneQuest is not it, but it holds up remarkably well, as I discovered in my Celtic campaign last year. Maybe if we just jigger a couple more things... Keep rolling low. Steve Perrin ------------------------------ From: SPerrin@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 02:08:10 -0400 Subject: Re: fatigue rules In a message dated 96-05-09 17:20:56 EDT, Ian Gorlick writes: >If I read your fatigue system correctly, then an unencumbered person will >never lose fatigue. I can't agree with that. After a good run in nothing but my >shorts and sneakers, I am exhausted. < This, of course, is exactly the circumstance I was talking about when I said that the GM might declare a player ENC under special circumstances. Going for a full-bore run around the mile-square park counts as "Encumbered" for the purposes of figuring fatigue loss. I'm sure someone out there can come up with an exact equivalency rule or a better guideline. I don't have the time. Steve ------------------------------ From: Mmohrfield@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 10:25:34 -0400 Subject: Adamant There have been a few contradictary remarks on this digest as to whether that adamant spike was in Griffin Island or Griffin Mountain. Well, I've owned Griffin Island and I've never owned Griffin Mountain and I definitely remember that spike. So it's either in Griffin Island or in both supplements. Mark Mohrfield ------------------------------ From: ANDOVER@delphi.com Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 14:07:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Adamantine spike The adamantine spike in Griffin Mountain is on Stone Crab Island. It is imbedded in the gold rock at the center. It is the only thing on the island that does not detect as magic. Of course, trying to chip the gold off the rock gets the crabs to attack you, and since it is chaotic, it becomes aimple rock as it is moved away from Festering Isle (not Stone Crab Island). Here is the description of the spike: "The spike in the boulder is the only thing on the entire island not tainted by chaos. It is made of solid adamantine and its value is immense: some would pay as much as 100,000 L for it. The spike can only be removed from the boulder by the concerted effort of beings with a total STR exceeding 150. Chpping off slices of boulder around the spike will not assist in loosening the spike although it will appear to help slightly. The spike has two special magical abilities. It can be wielded as a normal dagger which will ignore all magical protections (Shield or Protection spells among others). In addition, anyone who touches the spike (or who is touched by it) will be unable to use any magical spells or abilities for 15 minutes." In our campaign, on one of the two occasions in which Blueface appeared to heal the party (one death, one amputation) after a major fight (he always exacted a price) -- he told them that they had to bring him the most valuable thing on the River of the Damned. My players were surprisingly quick in figuring out what that was -- and although carrying it back was amusing (no spells for whomever was near it was the way I played it) they managed to get it back to him eventually. He gave them a prophecy when they gave it to him -- and they (and I) have no idea what he would use the spike for -- but he is a mighty Heroquester, isn't he? Jim Chapin ------------------------------ From: Sandy Petersen Date: Sat, 11 May 96 18:07:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Heroes >Londra herself has the undescribed 'Six Stones heroquest ritual', which I >believe takes you to the hero plane (to and from a particular place). Yes. It takes you to the Six Stones, which is a crossroads in the Underworld. Most Humakti know where several of the Six Stones roads lead to. Zorak Zoran also has a Six Stones ritual, leading to the same place, but they take other roads. It was unknown that both cults had the same ritual until Arkat's time. >Ralzakark > You left out some abilities - like 'have multiple forms'! A >heroquest power if I've ever seen one. Actually, the multiple forms are more of a heroquest handicap -- a curse or drawback. NOT a benefit. All heroquesters acquire these along with the goodies. Perhaps the strangest thing about Onslaught, to me, was the lack of such handicaps. Even Arkat, the mightiest superhero of them all, suffered from these, most famously his Unhealable Wound. The handicaps are not always the result of defeat or failure, either. Sometimes simply gaining something Good means you must take on Something Bad. In Glorantha as much as earth TANSTAAFL. > There is a dragonnewt in WF14 called Lord Sticky Skin, who has the >heroquest ability to have weapons stick to his skin when people >attack him with them. Again, this is a curse (and is so explicitly stated in WF14). But it can come in handy. Sandy ------------------------------ From: Sandy Petersen Date: Sat, 11 May 96 18:17:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Fatigue Rules Bruce Mason asks: >It seems however that, for new players, it could get quite confusing trying to >figure out when your fatigue penalties kick in and when they don't. It's not so bad. The penalty only hits if they roll over 90. Then they subtract 10 from their current Fatigue points, which are circled in a box on the side of the standard RQ III character sheet. If the number goes negative, they lose the -10. If it goes even more negative, they lose -20. Since such high rolls are generally announced with much glee at the session, there is always someone to make sure the deduction is done right. >What happens if you're in a fight at -9 FPs and haven't failed any rolls so you >have no negative modifiers. You then pick up a big rock (ENC 4) a and bash >someone over the head with it. I'll answer this in two ways. THE TECHNICAL WAY: you don't lose any of the skill percentiles until you fail a physical skill roll by rolling over 90. So picking up the rock and bashing someone will only cause you to lose 10% if your roll while attacking with it is 91+. In which case, you'd have gone from -14 to -24, and would now have a -30 penalty. THE WAY I ACTUALLY PLAY: I don't worry about stuff like that. If a player picks up something big and heavy in play (like throwing a table at someone), I don't worry about its ENC. Only if he decides to add it to his equipment would I care. >Another difficulty might be: Buddy in full plate wants to sprint 100m to >save a friend. I guess you make a fatigue roll. Which means that 9 >times out of 10 he is no more fatigued at the end of it than at the >beginning. I don't have a "fatigue roll". I do make players try CON rolls to keep from losing fatigue if they're doing something arduous that doesn't involve a skill roll. To solve the full-plate sprinter problem, I have two replies THE TECHNICAL WAY: the average human only sprints 48m in a round. Make at least two CON rolls. And if he fails the roll, he's far more fatigued than an unencumbered human. THE WAY I ACTUALLY PLAY: If I think it would be hard and exhausting, I invoke an automatic fatigue loss, or else lower the CON roll. For what it's worth, my system _does_ enable unencumbered folks to eventually tire. An average human wearing nothing, with a fatigue level of 20 or so, could take 3 fatigue losses before his skills dropped. ------------------------------ End of RQ Rules Digest: V2 #253 ******************************* This is the bottom of the RuneQuest Rules Digest. RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill, and Glorantha is a trademark of Chaosium. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval. Send electronic mail to Majordomo@hops.wharton.upenn.edu with "help" in the body of the message for subscription information on this and other mailing lists. WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html