From: owner-rq-rules-digest To: rq-rules-digest@hops.wharton.upenn.edu Subject: RQ Rules Digest: V1 #249 Reply-To: rq-rules Errors-To: owner-rq-rules-digest Precedence: bulk Content-Return: Prohibited Return-Path: owner-rq-rules-digest RQ Rules Digest: Wednesday, 14 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 249 TABLE OF CONTENTS Loren Miller Keep Glorantha out of RQ? alex Keep Glorantha out of RQ? Loren Miller Admin: Volume 2 starts on July 1 Bruce Lionel Mason A proposed ontology for magic David Cake A proposed ontology for magic RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. When paraphrasing you demonstrate exactly how well you understand the point someone was trying to make. 4. There is no number 4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Loren Miller Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Keep Glorantha out of RQ? Mr. Happy please note that the reason that Glorantha is being separated from RuneQuest is not that the fans asked for it, but rather that the sale of RQ to AH made it necessary. - -- +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller "I don't have to practice what I preach 'cause I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to!" The Book of The Subgenius ------------------------------ From: alex Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 11:08:41 BST Subject: Re: Keep Glorantha out of RQ? Andrew Behan says: > I have to disagree -strongly- with the suggestion that Glorantha should > be kept out of RQ. [reasons deleted] Loren Miller summarises this, rather suspectly, as: > Mr. Happy please note that the reason that Glorantha is being > separated from RuneQuest is not that the fans asked for it, but rather > that the sale of RQ to AH made it necessary. Well, it didn't, of course, but it happened that way anyway, and that isn't really the issue in this case. The question is really: should RQ4 be more (or less) separate from Glorantha than was RQ3, and/or should there be less (or more) Glorantha in the "basic set" than there was in RQ3 "Deluxe". The parenthical options are pretty much out, it seems clear, for reasons relating to what AH can do to Greg's shorts, as it were. But I'm certainly not convinced that going the other way, as suggested or implied by those demanding that Vile Gloranthacisms be Expunged from the rules, would be in any way a Good Thing. After all, if the rules aren't targetted on Glorantha (explicitly or implicitly), then on what are they? Fantasy Earth? Seems sub-optimal, this being less played, and less supported than Glorantha. I'm very skeptical about the idea of a "meta-system", and amn't aware of anyone working towards this for serious consideration for official publication. What could work is to provide a sort of set of "menu" sub-systems in the generic rules, which later gameworld support can then refer back to. But this still pre-supposes it's known accurately enough what the gameworld material is going to be for such an exercise to be feasible. And will look somewhat pointless if the non-Gloranthan options continue to be as feebly supported as at present. Alex. ------------------------------ From: Loren Miller Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 11:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Admin: Volume 2 starts on July 1 Hi Folks, Just a FYI, the digests will be rolling over to the new volume number as of July 1, which is the beginning of the fiscal year for us, and so if you want to get your good stuff in this volume before it closes you don't have all that long to do it. So get out there and contribute! - -- +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller "I don't have to practice what I preach 'cause I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to!" The Book of The Subgenius ------------------------------ From: Bruce Lionel Mason Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 15:03:55 -0230 Subject: Re: A proposed ontology for magic Andrew Behan says, > > Sandy Petersen had an article in TOTRM #6 about how normal people use the > battle magic from RQ, in the same vein I would suggest that casting a > Disrupt spell on a wart would do the trick, I must admit I found Sandy's article fun but dubious, especially if RQ is supposed to be a generic rules set. Curing a wart with a disrupt seems a world away from burying potatoes, going to a charmer etc. I could buy using a disrupt as a technique that works sometimes and not others. Wise man tries a dirupt and only manages to break a couple of knuckles so it's time to try the bit of string in the oven technique next. He then says, > however there is a limited > variety of things that charms will do and the drab, generic list of > spirit magics in RQ does a good job of covering these things letting > individual mGMs add clour if they so wish. Actually I don't think they do. RQ spirit magic is flash-bang black and white stuff that can attach severed limbs, provide glaring walls of light and have your bronze sword burst into flames and so on. Charms exist for almost everything and generally boil down to things that give good and bad luck or things to prevent you from some sort of harm: eg horseshoes over the door, bread in your pocket etc. There's also the whole issue of taboos such as not whistling at sea. Under RQ as it stands a horsehoe over the door could only be a spell focus (eg for spirit screen) or a spell matrix or a complicated enchantment that you wouldn't expect a peasant to know. Means you must either spend MPs or have already sacrificed POW for it to have any "real" effect. > > So, to answer your point at last, yes folk magic as represented in the > > "real" world is not a skilled activity anymore than is climbing a tree or > > swimming. > Forgive me for saying so but this sounds to me like justification after > the fact: why not make it work this way in shamanistic anjd religious > cultures as well? As far as I see it a magic system needs to deal with the following four variables. The spell's effect The method of casting the spell How to learn the spell What does the spell look like to the culture. My main interest in RQ is in playing out the relationship between experience, culture and belief. Thus I would like the magic of the culture to be linked somehow to its dynamics (and vice-versa). RQ3 has the 2nd and 3rd variables fixed with the first variable. Thus the variabilty in magic is rules-based. I proposed fixing the first category, so that there is a set of common effects that a GM can pick from, but varying the 2nd and 3rd. Thus in a literate culture the dominant form of magic (belief system) views magic as a body of lore. A culture which practices some form of ecstatic magic sees magic as being touched by a spirit and/or ancestor. IMHO this foregrounds the cultural aspects of magic more effectively. This however is only a default, creative GMs can use other methods of learning and casting spells to fit their particular worlds. - ---Bruce ------------------------------ From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 10:21:58 +0800 Subject: Re: A proposed ontology for magic My general attitude to folk magic (admittedly not something that I have really worked into my game as yet) is that most of it is to do with spirits. Good and bad luck, diseases of all kinds, fertility, even financial success are all influenced by the spirits that wander about the world invisibly. I feel that the RQ shamanic way of interacting with spirits is only the most obvious way - people with Spirit Lore skill (from RQ4, but its pretty obvious what it does) know that certain things are said to repel or attract certain spirits, and so they do them. This gives you a lot of what is called folk magic, without really requiring extra rules, or contradicting any existing ones. Shamans are Spirit Lore masters, so a lot of what they do is not just chasing down and beating up spirits, but giving useful (but often inexplicable) advise to people about how to keep the spirits happy. Cheers David ------------------------------ End of RQ Rules Digest: V1 #249 ******************************* This is the bottom of the RuneQuest Rules Digest. RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill, and Glorantha is a trademark of Chaosium. 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