Subject: RQ Discussions 35 First Distribution: May 1, 1992 ====================================================================== From: Peter Wake Subject: Re: RQ discussion 31 Comments on RQ Discussion 31 I have been bored by the number of variant rules being posted. Why don't we see more discussion of worlds and cults and so on? Poor Eric has ended up as the straw man in this tirade against so called rules improvements. I've yet to see anything that has been really well thought out and easy to use. The Ceremony Skill ------------------ I feel inclined to defend the original rules here... The reason it takes so long to learn to be a priest or a cleric of some other denomination is not because it takes a long time to learn ceremonies. It takes a long time to learn the philosophy of a particular faith, there are not so many rituals and they *could* be learned (if determined) in two or three years. The ceremony skill is about learning how to learn a ritual. (When I talk about priest from now on I mean a RQ priest). A priest may not perform a ritual very often and they are easy to forget, so just like in the real world all he has to do is read up on how to do it. This is why literacy is important to civilized priests. In more primitive religions (as found amongst the Praxian nomads) there is a mythological and mnemonic tradition. Tribesmen learn the simple ceremonies from infancy (or manhood at least). These 'rituals' would be simple and much more free form, easy for a priest skilled in ceremony to remember. Ceremony is much more a meta skill than a simple "I know ritual X" skill. A high ceremony allows a character to *learn* the complex rituals required to enchant items and summon other world entities. Religious ceremonies would generally be easier. I would penalize a character from one culture moving to another, but not a character who remained within his culture (such as a Waha initiate deciding to become a Storm Bull). Of course many religious ceremonies are summonings or enchantments, if not some other complex spell and as such they have to be done properly. No one can remember *all* of these for a particular religion. When a character learns the spell he also learns the ritual to cast it. Ceremony is the meta-knowledge required to interpret and use such knowledge. It should also cover physical dexterity and such (especially for sorcerors). The knowledge may be given by the god when the spell is learned, or it may be taught by the keeper of the holy place where it is learned. Spell teaching should not be instant, but why add more skills to an already overflowing character sheet. Equally Trainable Skills: An argument against more and more skills. ------------------------------------------------------------------- There is a good game mechanic reason for having all skills increase at the same rate: simplicity. It is quite tedious enough performing research rolls as it is without adding more work. Not all of us carry a calculator with us to play RQ. Some players have quite enough trouble remembering their dice - as for a calculator... It is also necessary to produce a list of arbitrary scaling factors for training time. What makes *your* list better than mine. Of course my list is composed entirely of 'times one' entries :-) As for adding more skills, sub-skills and then sub-skills of sub-skills, I can speak from experience here. With the demise of RQII I wrote my own RQ style role playing system (with a completely different magic system, a better fatigue/encumbrance system than we finally got and a combat system with more SRs not less - but I digress). Having played this for a year or so with satisfactory results I had a 'new and wonderful idea'. Why not have a gigantic elaborate 'skill tree' with sub-skills, sub-sub-skills, lots of different skill categories, multiple inheritance and so on. Yes I had the object oriented class hierarchy with multiple inheritance bug. Of course the results of this was five and six page character sheets, Hero-System style highly specialized 'combat monsters' and all manner of irritating rubbish getting in the way of the role playing. Most characters were specialized all right, so specialized it was a joke. Many were skilled in only one weapon, and most had no other skills of note. The skills that made Runequest interesting and more playable than a class based system (such as Climb, Ride and all those things that TSR bolted onto AD&D via their half baked proficiency system - which was nothing more than a skill based system spoiled) vanished in a rush of combat specialization. Of course you can stop all that with more rules... It would be easy for me to write some defense of the equally trainable skills. Someone could knock it apart and then I could build it up again. Rule systems will always have problems. Sometimes it's a good idea to compromise realism for playability. Be serious; if we define skills in terms of their training time then the whole problem vanishes. The idea that any skill is *trivial* is patently ridiculous, you can spend your life on any skill and never have learned it all. e.g. A swordsman with 1000 hours of sword experience is as skilled at fighting as a Conceal expert with a 1000 hours of hiding/camouflage experience is skilled a Concealing. (When I mean experience I mean training/research/experience). *** What I'm trying to say here is that you just can't compare these skills *** Skill Check Frenzy ------------------ Skill check frenzy is a pest. Powergamers who are seduced by it are simply bad players: deny them the skill checks - the problem will soon go away. It's just a guess but the suggested system looks unworkable: it's tedious to administrate and open to widescale abuse unless the referee is cautious. A wise referee doesn't have the problem in the first place so what's the point. As the original poster already made this point why does he propose a further system? If you keep training time tight the players can only train the skills that they really need. If his plan is intended to allow players to increase often used skills faster it won't work in my campaign. Why? A 75% character has to make 75 successful skill rolls before he gets his research increase which means around 150 rolls to increase equivalent to 1d6 (experience check increase). That's one monster combat, and as for spending 150 hours climbing!!! The proposed system simply encourages players to drag things out so as to clock up a few hours. Generally normal research is safer and more sensible. For skills where that is not possible, such as combat skills, it is practically impossible to increase. Get real: 75 combat successes and then you fail the increase roll and don't even get your crappy little increase (1% if you're lucky :-) Shamans ------- Player character shamans? They're big trouble... If you look carefully a Shaman has a chance of something from the random spirit encounter table (outer region I think) 'attacking' him equal to his power. I forget how often this is but it is pretty frequent (once every 24 hours or something like that). This can be tricky if it occurs at some critical moment, such as during a ritual. Anyone who allows PC Shamans is asking for trouble, because of these attacks they get a POW increase roll once a week just for living. Of course the shaman *could* lose to one of the spirits, and once the shaman is strong even hostile spirits should simply 'avoid' him. The rules just don't work properly for characters like that and were never intended to. (Or perhaps they're just badly written - I liked the old rules much better). -- Peter Wake ====================================================================== From: steve@tfs.COM (Steve Maurer) Subject: RQ Pregnancy Rules Pregancy and Childbirth As pregnancy and childbirth are natural and normal events in the lives of nearly all women, rules need to be provided to cover them. This is especially true because these events occur far more often than death by combat does (where RQ concentrates most of its attention). There are a large number of factors which must be accounted for when determining the chance for pregnancy. It is perfectly normal for a woman engaging in regular sexual activity to not get pregnant for many months, or even years. On the other hand, as they say, it only takes once. This system tries to balance all these factors. Fertility rises and falls depending on time of the month; the closer to ovulation, the more fertile a woman is. The "days away" on the chart below is the delay from when the lovemaking occurs to the last day of the egg's life. Since timing is never exact, when determining this roll 1d6; on a 6 move up one level, on a 1 move down one (25-28 row rolls over to 0-3 row, and vice versa). For a one shot affair, roll (1d8-1)*4 to determine the number the days away row which the lovemaking was done in; menstruation occurs somewhere in the 10-21 days period. [ The Uleria pregnancy runespell guarantees pregnancy ] Days away Number of "Chances" 25-28 days None (remember: if 6 on 1d6, use 0-3 days instead) 22-24 days None (remember: if 1 on 1d6, use 10-21 days instead) 10-21 days One; no matter how many sessions in this period 7 - 9 days (+)One chance per day, no matter how many sessions 5 - 6 days (+)One chance per session 3 - 4 days Two chances per session 0 - 2 days (*)Six chances per session (+) Favors girl; see sex determination (*) Favors boy; see sex determination Fertility Some women are naturally more fertile than others. When rolling the very first "chance", this must be determined. Roll 4d6, this is the Fertility percentage (F) of the woman; a roll equal or under it on the chart below indicates pregnancy. The Fertility remains for the rest of a woman's life, it is not a value a woman knows. Pregnancy Table; roll once per "Chance" 99-00 Functional (permanent) Infertility(*) 91-98 Not pregnant the rest of this month F+1-90 Not pregnant from this chance 02- F Pregnant 01 Pregnant (natural 01), no modifiers apply. (*) Only when rolled naturally on very first chance to become pregnant; or after severe disease, injury, or childbirth. Otherwise like 96-98. Table Modifiers (to die roll - decreasing chance of pregnancy): +5 if constantly engaged in extremely heavy physical activity +5 if on a subsistence diet +10 if starving (STR/CON lowering due to lack of food) +10 if suffered major disease this month +5 if husband starving, or suffered major disease or injury +10 within one month of having a baby +5 within six months of having a baby +5 if nursing +10 if man pulls out before finishing (and roll is less than 50) Pregnancy Type Once a woman is pregnant, roll on this table to determine the type of pregnancy. Often the results of this roll are not immediately apparent. [If child conceived under a Uleria Pregancy runespell, reroll any result of 90 or above] 00 Major pre-childbirth problem; embryo dies; internal bleeding or infection; to live, roll CONx3 for 1d6 weeks 98-99 Major childbirth problem (see childbirth table) 96-97 Premature birth (always for twins) 90-95 Embryo dies; spontaneous abortion (woman has "late period") 04-89 Normal Pregnancy; free of major problems 02-03 Fraternal Twins; roll once again here; twice on the sex table 01 Identical Twins; roll once again here; once on the sex table Note: a twin result from a twin reroll are triplets (etc) Sex Determination While this table is obvious, the modifiers are not. 51-00 Girl 01-50 Boy Die roll modifiers: +10 if woman pregnant as a result of 7-9 day session +5 if woman pregnant as a result of 5-6 day session -5 if woman pregnant as a result of 0-3 day session +10 if session which got woman pregnant had a successful Control Pregnancy skill, proper time to prepare, and cooperation from man, trying to get a girl. -10 Ditto above; trying to get a boy. Childbirth Childbirth is exhausting, extremely painful, and can be deadly. While Glorantha does have the equivalent of the "caesarian section" (cutting the child out of the womb, healing the mother's body and resurrecting her), it does not always work: resurrections are not always available (and are often reserved for warriors in need of resurrection). also, the body may become too damaged to support the spirit. [ The Xiola Umbar spell Couvade prevents rolls on the childbirth table ]. [ The skill Midwife subtracts from the die roll; -5/-10/-20 for normal roll, special, and critical respectively ] 01-10 Quick, easy birth 11-60 Painful, but otherwise healthy labor 61-70 Much bleeding; -1d3 HP (non-healable); reroll normally 71-80 Serious bleeding; -1d6 HP (non-healable); reroll normally 81-90 Internal injuries, -1d3 CON; and reroll 1d50+50 91-95 Serious injuries, -1d6 CON; and reroll 1d50+50 96-99 Major problem; as above, roll CONx5 or die; then reroll 00 Death ====================================================================== From: davidc@cs.uwa.oz.au (David Cake) Subject: some RuneStuff The Rune descriptions in RQ2 have generally stayed pretty much the same except for a few new ones and a few changes among some of the minor ones. Another change is that each rune now has both an originator and a current owner, besides those that are merely bound to it. The originators and owners are listed in the Introduction to the Glorantha booklet in the Deluxe set, but some of the other changes have gone largely undocumented, so here are notes (most official, some with a little guesswork on my art). The Earth Rune has a variant form, that is a black rectangle rather than an outline. This may be the Hell rune, and is certainly a reference to the dark side of Earth worship (notably possessed by Maran Gor and Babeester Gor). The old Undead Rune, documented in Cults of Terror (a bit like a vertical line with a sideways fertility rune across the center) is now the Hunger rune. It is still associated with many undead (vampires most especially), but not all (for example Hunger is not particularly central to Zorak Zoran, although they use undead). This also answers the question of why Krarsht has this rune although they do not use Undead. Krarsht is, after all, the hungry mother. Krarsht fans may have noted, incidentally, that Krarsht is some what ripped off in RQ3 Rune wise, as well as magic wise, having lost the distinction of having two opposing power runes (the only cult besides the Red Moon to do so), as formerly they had Movement and Stasis. The Undead Rune is almost certainly possessed by other cults of hunger, such as Vivamort (now a cult teaching sorcery instead of Rune Magic, without DI probably, and probably not using the Sorcery spell Create Vampire to create vampires (they drain victims to create new vampires)) and the Chaos monster Gloomshark (a lot like an aquatic, uncontrolled Crimson Bat, with a small but fanatic cult). Hunger is a form Rune. The Rune in Gods of Glorantha above the Godunya cult description (the weird one) is the Godunya rune, according to Sandy Peterson. I presume that it is symbolic of the office of Emperor or the Kralorelan Empire in general use, but I am not sure as to its more spiritual function. Godunya is presumably prime source of this Rune. Presumably a form Rune, unless it is grouped with Mastery and Magic. Similarly, the Rune above the Pamalt cult description is the Pamalt Rune. Apart from likely general use as a symbol of the cult and perhaps his worshippers in general, I would guess that it is symbolic of leadership in general (as distinguished from Mastery, Pamalt is mythologically not the toughest guy, just the best at organization), but that is a guess. Again, Pamalt is presumably Prime Source. Again, presumably a form Rune unless it goes with Mastery and Magic and Infinity. The Rune above the Gorgorma cult (in form it is a round black circle (a Darkness Rune) with a horizontal line through it) is the Shadow rune, yet another odd hybrid of Darkness (to go with Cold and Ice). It is probably symbolic of lack of communication as well as lack of sound, and almost certainly the symbol of the now virtually extinct Pamaltalen cult of Silence, who may well be owners of the Rune. An incomplete Elemental Rune like Light or Cold. The Rune formerly known as the Issaries Rune appears to be much more generalized now, and is presumably the Rune of Trade. Several other cults seem to possess this Rune, some without known mythological connections to Issaries, though all trade gods. It is a reasonably safe assumption that Issaries is Prime Source of this Rune. A form Rune. Thats all about Runes. The hard facts courtesy of Sandy Peterson, the guesses and extrapolation thanks to me. David Cake davidc@cs.uwa.oz.au Cognitive Science University of West Australia ====================================================================== From: s861022@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Harry the Dirty Dog) Subject: The Trollkin Chaos Cult The Trollkin Chaos Cult ----------------------- Written by Philipp Grawe (Harry the Dirty Dog) s861022@minyos.xx.rmit.oz This is a short Scenario Hook that I came up with in an Advanced Computer Architecture lecture. Something to keep players occupied when nothing is happening. Perhaps they meet the Cult while staying in a village that gets attacked, perhaps something important is stolen by a Trollkin, perhaps a smaller sized character is asked to join the Cult. The Cult will attack anywhere and anything. There is a writeup on Feral Trollkin in the Troll Realms book (a short one put out a couple of years ago containing a couple of modules, the rules for Troll Ball and so on. It's 3rd edition). MYTHOS AND HISTORY. A starving Feral Trollkin, injured and weak found a pool of Chaos Ooze, Primal Chaos Muck, near the Foulblood Woods in Southern Dragon Pass. It drank from the pool in desperation, not realizing the pit's true nature and received wonderous powers...it now walked upright and tall, possessed strength beyond the dreaming of other Trollkin, it had a vision, a mission... it was to be a Prophet of the New Age...the Age of Trollkin, when the downtrodden rise up against the larger races and take their rightful place at the Forefront of Society. It would begin a cult. It would gather worshippers for the Unknown God, raise an army which it would lead to conquer the world in the name of the only God in history that had smiled down upon a Trollkin. That was two weeks ago. By now the membership of the Cult is around 40-50. CULT BELIEFS. The Cult believes that it's eventual destiny is to overthrow the Troll race and rule in their place. They are hostile to anything that doesn't look like a Trollkin. Their only Holy site is the Pool, where they worship every New Moon, the first Trollkin having received it's calling on a New Moon. They have very little concept of the outside world, apart from what they have seen while scavenging from others, or what some have seen in the Troll towns and villages. THE CULT IN THE WORLD. The Cult is based in the southern edge of the Troll woods, near the Foulblood Woods in Dragon Pass. They often go on raids, generally taking a number of days, but always returning to the Chaos Pool on the New Moon. They raid anyone and everyone. Small groups camping are prone to attack, especially those with riding animals (remember one horse can feed a Trollkin for a week). Settlements are often raided, especially those with sheep or cattle. Smaller Villages have been completely overrun, with only bones left. A hungry Trollkin will eat anything including people, other Trollkin, animals, leather, bone, wood, people, mud, sand, grass. INITIATE MEMBERSHIP. The cult has very little concept of Initiate membership. You are either the Leader, or you are a follower. A new member must drink of the God's Blood, (ie drink from the Chaos Muck in the pool) in order to receive the vision and the Gift of the God (one or more Chaos Features), and prove his worth by going on a mission (somehow obtaining enough food to feed the rest of them). Failure to complete any of these means being sacrificed to the God (being pushed into the pool to be eaten by a Gorp at the bottom.) A bad chaos feature, such as an extra arm, or a major loss in statistics with no other gains or being turned into a broo is considered to be failure. PRIESTHOOD. There is no priesthood. The leader is simply the strongest Trollkin. At the moment this is still the founder. GENERAL NOTES. The Chaos Pool ------- The pool is one of those places in Glorantha where Primal Chaos has struck through to the world. It is not a big pool, being little more than a meter or two in diameter. At the murky bottom lives a Gorp which feeds on the creatures, plants, and things that fall (or are pushed) into the pool. In game terms drinking from the pool gives 1d4 Chaos Features, with a 50% chance of receiving a reverse chaos feature (the Curse of Thed). The reason I thought up this cult is that it is one of the few in Glorantha that doesn't actually worship anything. It is based around a naive little Trollkin that saw what it considered to be a miracle, something totally inexplicable and formed a logical belief around it, a belief which is unfortunately completely untrue. Remember that the whole writeup is basically from a Trollkin point of view, a view which is very limited and inexperienced. What's really sad is that a band of Storm Bulls would take these guys out without blinking, and without them ever knowing what they'd done wrong. ====================================================================== The RuneQuest(tm) mailing list is a courtesy of Andrew Bell. 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